Science and magic

Non Dungeon Siege related discussion.

Postby Cyberatog on Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:30 pm

For the first, i just gonna call magic for for "mana" its kinda easier then. ;)

None of this is true of course, im just messing around with false facts that can be useful for any writer or storydesigner out there. ;)

In the oblivion of space, there exists so called "gods". They are shapeless beings of enormous powers that can bring together matter to form a world. If gods gather to create a world, it takes much shorter time to form the world. After the creation, the gods rest. If the gods create a world while young, there is a chance that the world may have matter called "mana" which is actually parts of the god that has fell of due to its unsteady "body". These "mana" particles can manipulate the creatures lives by giving them "magic" abilities, which must be trained. The younger the god was at the creation, the more mana there is, the more powerful the magic becomes and the more become the "mana-mutants" who can use it.

In our case however, we have no magic abilities because our god was too old. Instead, as some world has magic, we learned to see beyond it. To our hands and constuctive knowledge. Other creatures in other worlds does not have this ability, as they are too busy with their advances in magic, just as we have advances in technology. :thumbup:

Ill add more info here later B)

Its a kinda neat idea, dont you think? ^_^
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
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Postby Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:17 pm

Im thinking about it, cant think of more to think of... :wacko:
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
To arms! To arms!
Krug hip-hop!
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Postby Elys on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:17 pm

Another idea I made for myself for my own fantastic world using special power.

It's kinda long and in french so I will make it shorter in my weak english hoping some might get the idea.

It's not really a story but more a fictional approach to gives a sens to the magic.


We are all made with flesh and bones, our memory, our emotions, our reactions are related to the chemical complex reactions in our brain.

A deterioration such as an accident on our brain can make us lose the memory, a drug can make us act completely differently, or lose some of our intellectual faculties.

But there is something which we do not explain: Conscience. After all according to the first definition we would be only one heap of atoms interacting with each others. But we are aware to exist.

Is this conscience passive, as if we look at our life and our choices through a television screen, and our impression of "freedom of thought" would be only the reflection of the chemical reactions of our brain.

Or then perhaps that on a miniature scale, at certain times, our conscience is able to deteriorate chemical reality, to break the laws of physics.

The sum of these pertubations involving a beginning of clean thought, certainly still largely related to the structural aspect of our brain, but sufficient to alterate physical causality and to really make choice. An active consience able to influence on what we define reality.

If such is the consience, a conscience of greater powerr would be able to change reality on a greater scale.

I am now persuaded of it. During all these years of researches, I discovered men and other forms of life being able to deteriorate completely reality around them in an unbelievable manner

The most fantastic case I was the witness were the capacity of telekinesis of an old man, and a dolphin beeing able to make boil water.

These beings have a conscience superior, able to act beyond their cerebral structure.

The revelations of the old man taught me that it had slowly increase his telekinesis capacity and so there should be a way for human kind to develop the power of their conscience.

The old magic would thus not be only one myth. Humanity would then just have forgotten it with its worship for science.

But I know that today magic returns. The future will be certainly technological, but the magic will have soon a great role to play.
Last edited by Elys on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a facist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack or patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII -
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Postby Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:27 pm

Short explanation:

Magic can individually take more time to learn than technology and sience, it takes around 20 years to understand our most sofisticated devices today, but it took hundreds of years to develop it. Magic takes hundreds of years to master instead. Both are manipulations of our world, but is learned in different ways and, technology may take physical space, while magic takes psychic space inside the user, and magic can as well as technology and science, kill the user.
Last edited by Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
To arms! To arms!
Krug hip-hop!
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Postby Elys on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:37 pm

Not what I meant but I can't blame you with my poor text :lol:

I'm gonna make a drawing, will be more clear but tomorrow because I'm getting lazy for now ;)
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a facist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack or patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII -
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Postby Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:41 pm

Elys wrote: Not what I meant but I can't blame you with my poor text  :lol:

I was just continuing my own "scientific magic" ;)
Last edited by Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
To arms! To arms!
Krug hip-hop!
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Postby Elys on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:44 pm

Sorry I thought it was the case but not sure because of "short explanation" so I replied ^_^
Last edited by Elys on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a facist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack or patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII -
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Postby ghastley on Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:03 pm

Have you read Larry Niven's "The magic goes away"?
Best "scientific" treatment of mana I've read.
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Postby Cyberatog on Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:08 pm

I dont read too much fantasy because i dont want others work inspire me too much, im making the most up by myself. ;)
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
To arms! To arms!
Krug hip-hop!
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Postby Dmagister on Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:08 am

Cyberatog wrote: If the gods create a world while young, there is a chance that the world may have matter called "mana" which is actually parts of the god that has fell of due to its unsteady "body".

Yeah cyber im kinda confused. You say that the younger you are(God) when creating your world, you would 'drop' some of that 'mana' when creating your world(kinda what you said). It does not compute to me. Usually when you are young you have more energy and you are able to control what ever your doing. Or is it just me? when you are old you lose control and become'unsteady' (don't you?). Like Arthritis and that meremory forgetting thing and etc, etc. Your body starts to move with out control. thus, in what i think you said, means that when unsteady the gods actually fall. Right? please tell me if i intrepreted it correctly.
If I ever get rich, I hope I won't be so mean to poor people-like I am now!

If you are ever in a war, instead of a hand grenade, throw one of those small cute little baby pumpkins at your enemy. Maybe it will have them think how stupid war is...and then while they are thinking-throw a REAL hand grenade at them!

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Postby iryan on Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:42 am

There was a very interesting short science fiction story that I read years ago that dealt with something similiar to what you are talking about (I can't remember the name of it, I think it was Devolution).

Basically we here on Earth were descended from a race of god-like amoeba like creatures that could manipulate matter and energy with their minds (a bit like magic). They constructed huge cities out of energy and could travel anywhere they like with the power of their intellect. They spread throughout the galaxy and inhabited millions of worlds.

However there was something in Earth's atmosphere that interfered with their unique biology. They began to devolve. The first symptoms was that their bodies began to change shape and solidify into flesh and bone. At first they were fish-like creatures, then amphibians and finally mammals. All this time their intellect and mental powers (magic) kept on diminishing. They found that they had to start using simple instruments (like rocks and branches) to do the things that they could do before with simple thought. Their once magnificent cities of energy began to disappear (conveniently solving the questions of evidence or ruins) and they were forced to seek shelter in caves and build simple huts. As their mental (magic) abilities diminished, they had to use physical means. They could no longer control their environment with their minds, they had to use 'hands'. They devolved into humans.

Earth was quarantined to prevent the possible spread of the contagion. In the story one man managed to find out the truth. The shock sent him into madness and he committed suicide. I found it a very interesting story.
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Postby Dmagister on Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:17 am

biology, science and magic huh? does not compute to me
If I ever get rich, I hope I won't be so mean to poor people-like I am now!

If you are ever in a war, instead of a hand grenade, throw one of those small cute little baby pumpkins at your enemy. Maybe it will have them think how stupid war is...and then while they are thinking-throw a REAL hand grenade at them!

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Postby niceguy on Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:41 am

Dmagister wrote: biology, science and magic huh? does not compute to me

Play shadowrun and you get all of that.
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Postby Cyberatog on Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:13 am

Dmagister wrote:
Cyberatog wrote: If the gods create a world while young, there is a chance that the world may have matter called "mana" which is actually parts of the god that has fell of due to its unsteady "body".

Yeah cyber im kinda confused. You say that the younger you are(God) when creating your world, you would 'drop' some of that 'mana' when creating your world(kinda what you said). It does not compute to me. Usually when you are young you have more energy and you are able to control what ever your doing. Or is it just me? when you are old you lose control and become'unsteady' (don't you?). Like Arthritis and that meremory forgetting thing and etc, etc. Your body starts to move with out control. thus, in what i think you said, means that when unsteady the gods actually fall. Right? please tell me if i intrepreted it correctly.

Gods dont age. They start as unsteady energy clouds and slowly develop their body. Gods dont work as us, they dont get weaker with time, but instead get stronger and stronger. The only way to destroy a god is to drain its powers. However, draining a gods power could end with the destruction of the gods world, and death to the drainer. ;)

I have no real base in any fantasy at all. Thats how it works in my tales.
Last edited by Cyberatog on Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Today's thought:
Freedom is boring! Tyrrany! Dictation! Two-party system! Scream the words of change!

(The "two-party system" joke was added last when I found it fun after babbling up the words for dictatiorship, a nice touch)

Evidence why Peter Jackson is NOT a tyrant
Why we dont have magic in our world
To arms! To arms!
Krug hip-hop!
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Postby Dmagister on Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:18 pm

could you tell me what is shadowrun?

If gods don't age then why do they get beards and all that?
If I ever get rich, I hope I won't be so mean to poor people-like I am now!

If you are ever in a war, instead of a hand grenade, throw one of those small cute little baby pumpkins at your enemy. Maybe it will have them think how stupid war is...and then while they are thinking-throw a REAL hand grenade at them!

Arrogance: Intolerable]
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